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Whilfest 2001 Chat

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A Wednesday Night Lecture held on 2001/03/28 with Whil Hentzen

[20:14] {CindyWinegarden} Hi Whil

[20:40] {AlexWieder} Whil? How are we supposed to get snow in the next gldgg if you moved the date to late fall!?!?!?!?

[20:41] {WhilHentzen} Moved? It's always been late fall. Well, except for that one time when it wasn't.

[21:02] {CarlKarsten} Ok, welcome all to the WNl, normally hosted by Evan, but I am filling in. That means that I say that tonight we will be chatting wiht Whil Hentzen, who among other things has put on the Greal Lakes Great Big Developer Workshop.

[21:04] {CarlKarsten} Anyway, Whil is here to answer any questios you migh have about it, so, take it away Whil

[21:04] {JohnKoziol} I don't have any IE 5.5 problems

[21:05] {CarlKarsten} I supose a good place to start is: Who here has not been to a GLGDW?

[21:05] {RDBlack} ME

[21:05] {JohnKoziol} Moi

[21:05] {CindyWinegarden} ME ME ME

[21:05] {MarkusVoellmy} me ;(

[21:05] {WhilHentzen} And the reasons are.... (gowan, be creative!)

[21:05] {JohnKoziol} Rough schedule

[21:06] {BarbaraPeisch} Mike, you were there last year--you don't need an excuse!

[21:06] {CindyWinegarden} Whil - I'm still enought of a newbie to have not really known about it in time to make plans.

[21:06] {MikeHelland} "Mike, you don't need an excuse" .... Wow, I've never heard that before

[21:06] {WhilHentzen} And, besides, you have to be old enough to vote for Election Day to be a concern, right???

[21:06] {JohnKoziol} lol

[21:07] {RDBlack} Think it will be way over my head.

[21:07] {MikeHelland} Oh yeah :-)

[21:07] {WhilHentzen} "it"? What's "it"?

[21:07] {CindyWinegarden} RD - the conference over your head? That's how you learn and grow.

[21:07] {MikeHelland} So, it Whilfest going to be annual from now on?

[21:07] {CarlKarsten} Acutally, lets talk about topics

[21:07] {MikeHelland} Wasn't it um... not annual?

[21:08] {RDBlack} The tech info not versed enough I a lot of areas.

[21:08] {WhilHentzen} We'll probably skip every fourth year, as that seems to be when my wife is pregnant...

[21:08] {AlexWieder} Whilfest is an affordable way to listen to sessions that were over your head in a previos conference.

[21:08] {MikeHelland} :-)

[21:08] {BarbaraPeisch} That hasn't stopped you in the past, Whil.

[21:08] {JohnKoziol} Do pregnant people pay 1 1/2 the normal fee?

[21:09] {WhilHentzen} Here are the official, previous GLGDW years: 94 (demo'd VFP 3), 95, 97, 2000 (was going to be 99, but then VFP 7 got moved WAAAAAY back.)

[21:09] {WhilHentzen} Pregnant people have to work 1.5 times as hard.

[21:09] {RDBlack} Yes Cindy, Have to convence boss the expense is justified.

[21:09] {AlexWieder} I've heard of married people going down to once a month, but once every four years is probably grounds for divorce whil!

[21:09] {JohnKoziol} Ack -- ROFL

[21:09] * Cindy Winegarden throws Sly The Fox Beanie Baby at Alex Wieder

[21:09] {MikeHelland} HAhaha

[21:10] {CarlKarsten} Whil - are the conference schedules from previous years on your site?

[21:10] {JohnKoziol} It's called the Leap Year leap?

[21:10] {CindyWinegarden} RD - Whil Fest is one of the more economical conferences.

[21:10] {MikeHelland} RD, not all of the Whilfest sessions are out there, there are many non bleeding edge sessions

[21:10] {MikeHelland} Which I enjoyed

[21:10] {WhilHentzen} Well, GLGDW is a fairly good deal. The show itself is $395, and I would bet most people spent less than $1000 for the whole 3 1/2 day gig.

[21:10] {AlexWieder} Makes sense... should be quite pregnant by fall if conceived on Feb 29.

[21:11] {JohnKoziol} That was my reasoning, Alex

[21:11] {WhilHentzen} Carl, Conference schedules from previous years aren't out there, but the list of topics and speakers are.

[21:11] {MikeHelland} Whil, how do you decide on what topics should be presented?

[21:12] {AlexWieder} I think I spent about $900 altogether (stayed at the Best Western one block from whilfest).

[21:12] {WhilHentzen} Combination of two things, Mike. The first is what I want to know about. People sorta forget that I'm just a developer like other folks. I have customers for whom I build apps in VFP.

[21:13] {BarbaraPeisch} You still develop apps, Whil? When do you have time?

[21:13] {WhilHentzen} So I have a pretty good feel for what I want to know, or used to want to know, or am goign to want to know 'when I get some time'.

[21:13] {MikeHelland} I know what thats like :-)

[21:13] {JohnKoziol} Whil - do you see conference attendance on the rise, overall, or do you think the count is the same just spread to more conferences?

[21:13] {WhilHentzen} I also hear from a lot of people, through Fox Talk, through the book publishing gig, and just general online stuff (I lurk a bunch even if I don't yak much anymore.)

[21:14] {WhilHentzen} The second is that potential speakers propose topics that they feel would be, er, marketable - that is - interesting to lots of folks.

[21:14] {MikeHelland} I thnk the UT is about to hiccup again...

[21:15] {WhilHentzen} John, I think that conference attendance for 2001 will be higher than in 2000. This spring has been a bit tougher, given that we haven't had a new shipping release in a looong time.

[21:15] {CarlKarsten} I would say that many of the topics help bring things from "over my head" to "within reach"

[21:16] {WhilHentzen} Barbara, I'll sleep when I'm dead. Until then, I've got LOTS of time. {s}

[21:16] {JamesWeil} Hey guys!

[21:16] {MikeHelland} Does the fact that no new VFP has shipped in a while makes any differnce, condiering how diverse our toolbox has gotten, we may not need to know what we can do new in VFP, but with XML, COM, .NET?

[21:16] {BarbaraPeisch} I thought you just had clones. {s}

[21:16] {MikeHelland} Hi James

[21:16] {WhilHentzen} There's another benefit to going to a conference - you get to see what the hot buttons are. I remember reading Fox Talk back in 91/92, and I considered myself lucky if I understood half of the articles.

[21:17] {AlexWieder} No Barbara, that's Ed Rauh.

[21:17] {CarlKarsten} and then I can talk halfway intelligently about it to a client, and learn the rest if is seams applicable

[21:17] {AlexWieder} Hi Jim!

[21:17] {WhilHentzen} But at least I saw what other developers were doing, so I knew generally where to focus my efforts - instead of going way down the wrong paths.

[21:18] {AlexWieder} Being able to sit and talk with other developers is also a very good thing. Especially if you're a caved independent like myself.

[21:18] {JohnKoziol} Mike: Kilo Fox didn't come out that long ago and Cert Fox is RSN. So what do you mean?

[21:18] {WhilHentzen} Mike, it depends on what types of apps you're writing. I run into a remarkable number of people are still just learning VFP. We just reprinted the VFP 6 Fundamentals book because of demand!

[21:18] {JamesWeil} A virtual troglodyte!

[21:19] {CindyWinegarden} Welcome, Keith!

[21:19] {WhilHentzen} Thanks, Jim. Now you've got everyone shelling out to and the traffic around here just dies...

[21:19] {CarlKarsten} And there is always the "Intor to VFP" pre-conference session

[21:19] {MikeHelland} John, Whil, I was talking about the confrence attendence, earlier

[21:19] {AlexWieder} Troglodite = caveman

[21:20] {CarlKarsten} to bad they don't have "intro to splelling"

[21:20] {KeithHeyder} Thanks, new to all this. Just thought I would stop by and see what is going on.

[21:20] {MikeHelland} Lol

[21:20] {JamesWeil} I ca;'t type to save my life. It kiss my code!

[21:20] {CindyWinegarden} Keith, links to chat logs from other Wednesday's are at

[21:21] {AlexWieder} People should pass a spelling bee or get their drivers license revoked. We would have far less pollution or far better spellers ;-)

[21:21] {CindyWinegarden} So Whil - how do you choose your speakers?

[21:21] {WhilHentzen} Mike, I think the somewhat leveling of attendance is mainly because we haven't had a new product for a long time. It used to be we'd get a new rev every other year, and you could watch DevCon attendance mirror that.

[21:21] {JamesWeil} Alex, LOL!

[21:22] {KeithHeyder} Cindy what is going on here tonight?

[21:22] {JohnKoziol} Whil, I was struck by what you said earlier about the Fundamentals book ... think a lot of developers are re-considering VFP?

[21:22] {WhilHentzen} You want me to commit publicly, Cindy? {bg}

[21:22] {CindyWinegarden} Keith - this is a "Wednesday Night Lecture"

[21:22] {AlexWieder} Keith: q&a with Whil Hentzen, who organizes a vfp conference in Milwaukee every year.

[21:22] {CindyWinegarden} Commit or comment Whil.

[21:23] {WhilHentzen} Well, um, uh, you see, it's like this {thinking furiously}

[21:23] * James Weil thinks that is very funny...

[21:23] {CindyWinegarden} Whil - some conferences put out a general call for proposals, some send private invitations for proposals.

[21:24] {KeithHeyder} So Whil - lecture me...

[21:24] {AlexWieder} If he tells you he'll have to kill you Cindy.

[21:24] {WhilHentzen} First dibs go to folks who spoke last year, and who followed the rules, and did pretty good sessions.

[21:24] {CarlKarsten} rules, like get their session notes in on time?

[21:24] {WhilHentzen} So that means there are usually a few open slots, since for one reason or another a few from the previous year don't make it.

[21:25] {WhilHentzen} Yes, exactly, Carl. There's one person not coming back this time because they didn't get their session notes in on time last year.

[21:25] {WhilHentzen} Rather, who won't be invited back this year.

[21:25] {WhilHentzen} So then, for those few open spots, I've got a list of folks who have asked in the past, and I ask them all to submit topic proposals, and then I play king for a day and pick.

[21:26] * Cindy Winegarden throws Sly The Fox Beanie Baby at Doug Dodge

[21:26] {WhilHentzen} {Hey Doug! Howya doing?}

[21:26] {DougDodge} Hiya Whil!!

[21:26] {AlexWieder} Whil, since you're so intent about that rule, what are the chances of making the session materials available before the conference? I'd love to be able to read ahead of time in order to understand better and ask less stupid questions.

[21:26] {BarbaraPeisch} Hi Doug! I didn't even see you come in.

[21:27] {DougDodge} Ok.. Hi Everybody!! {g}

[21:27] {WhilHentzen} One thing I've done with GLGDW since '94 was use GLGDW as a mechanism to bring new folks into the speaking community. I remember how difficult it appeared to be to become a "DevCon" speaker.

[21:28] {WhilHentzen} If you look back over the years, many of today's 'big names' got their start at GLGDW in years past. I think it's important to keep new blood coming in. It's also important because I'm a vampire, and having GLGDW on Halloween is going to crimp my style.

[21:28] {DougDodge} Whil - What do you look for in speakers?

[21:28] {JamesWeil} Besides good looks?

[21:28] {JohnKoziol} Grace, poise, manners, and a nice swimsuit figure?

[21:28] {CindyWinegarden} Doug - sounds like he looks for good red blood, and lots of it.

[21:29] {DougDodge} Shucks.. Leaves me out! Karol says hi!

[21:29] {CindyWinegarden} JK - do I stand a chance then?

[21:29] {WhilHentzen} Alex, I've been asked that before, and, well, I'm just not decided on it yet. I pretty much put GLGDW on by myself, and that's one more thing to do... But I'll respond if enough people ask!

[21:29] {JohnKoziol} I sure don't

[21:29] {JamesWeil} You mean we have to stand up ther and bleed?

[21:29] {AlexWieder} I'll ask Mike Asherman to start campaigning for that WHil ;-)

[21:29] {DougDodge} James, It's not so bad.. There are usually lots of medics around... {g}

[21:30] {JohnKoziol} ROFL Alex.

[21:30] {CarlKarsten} Whil - I ask too

[21:30] {CarlKarsten} (notes so we can prep for the sessions)

[21:30] {CindyWinegarden} Whil - what's your idea of a topic that will attract conference goers?

[21:30] {JamesWeil} Alex, please don't I can't read through anmore more marathon diatribes

[21:30] {WhilHentzen} Doug, what do I look for in speakers? I'd say passion is really big on the list. Demonstrated expertise, of course, too. And I usually ask around for opinions on public speaking (user groups, say) experience.

[21:31] {AlexWieder} Whil, one way to do it would be to post the materials as they become available. I'm hereby volunteering to give you a hand with that if you'd like.

[21:31] {DougDodge} Whil - Passion.. Something I lack {g} NOT! {bg} Actually, mine is for the community more than a single topic it seems.

[21:32] {JohnKoziol} Passion.....does that fit into the once every four years mold?

[21:32] {WhilHentzen} It sounds like I'm going to have to think about posting in advance pretty seriously this year. You'll note that we put the session schedule up about a month in advance last year becuase EVERYONE asked for it the previous GLGDW.

[21:32] {DougDodge} JohnK - *chuckle* partly... {g}

[21:32] {AlexWieder} I can talk about my wife for hours. that passionate enough?

[21:32] {JamesWeil} Whil, do you think we'll start seeing speakers from other disiciplines now?

[21:32] {WhilHentzen} Who am I missing? Ummm, topics....

[21:33] {AlexWieder} As an attendee, the session schedule is a must for me, Whil. I need at least a month to digest everything and plan what sessions to attend.

[21:33] {DougDodge} Whil - One topic.. How well VFP 'plays' in the MSFT world.

[21:33] {CindyWinegarden} Whil - would there be any demand for cross-training? VFP folks that want some intro to VB or something else?

[21:33] {JohnKoziol} Doug: I don't think no one knows that yet

[21:33] {WhilHentzen} Lessee. The big big big thing I'm focusing on this year is practical 'I can use this technique tomorrow' stuff. GLGDW has always been rather light on 'marketing' and that'll continue.

[21:33] {JohnKoziol} (my durn weird grammar)

[21:34] {DougDodge} JohK - Tamar with the aotomation. Rick Strahl - the web, etc... ?

[21:34] {CarlKarsten} JK - you can come to the other pre-conf: intro to english ;)

[21:34] {JohnKoziol} Makes sense to me, Doug

[21:34] {JamesWeil} Same old, same old. I want to see other technolgies integrated with VFP!

[21:34] {JohnKoziol} "English as a foreign language"

[21:34] {DougDodge} CK - Where's the speeling class? {g}

[21:35] {CarlKarsten} I can spell all the VFP commands - what else is there?

[21:35] {WhilHentzen} At GLGDW, we've got four session rooms, and I think we'll do the same thing - have each room sort of based on a specific 'track'.

[21:35] {AlexWieder} Tamar and Steven Black did interesting things the past few confs. They made sessions on basic topics and a lot of people attended because there are a lot of little details you learn that way.

[21:35] {PaulMrozowski} Steven Black's "Heuristics" thing was great.

[21:35] {WhilHentzen} For example, one track is VFP core stuff - Andy Kramek's "Tuning Visual FoxPro" session was well attended and the highest rated at GLGDW last year.

[21:36] {DougDodge} James - I'm doing a W2K FAX dealy-bop I hope to get 'out there' this year. Already have it working - need to polish it up a bit for public consumption.

[21:36] {JohnKoziol} I'd like to see more "best practices" stuff because everyone can learn or contribute to those

[21:36] {AlexWieder} Another excellent session was Drew Speedie's tips'n tricks. Lots of interaction.

[21:36] {MikeHelland} I get a c000005 error in IE5.5 every single time I click a submit button

[21:36] {BarbaraPeisch} ...and Mike comes running in out of left field...

[21:36] {WhilHentzen} The Crystal Reports and Adobe Acrobat sessions were also highly rated last year.

[21:36] {JamesWeil} That's good Mike. I bet you can talk for hours about it.

[21:37] {DougDodge} Mike H - *rof'l*

[21:37] {WhilHentzen} You gotta ask yourself - why do people come to a Fox conference? To learn about SOAP? Or to become better Fox developers? Or both? {unhappy s}

[21:37] {CarlKarsten} Whil - what else besides formal VFP talks are there?

[21:37] {JohnKoziol} Better Fox developers for sure.

[21:38] {PaulMrozowski} To become a better developer.

[21:38] {DougDodge} Whil - All of the above PLUS to interact with other FoxPro folsk.

[21:38] {WhilHentzen} Carl, I don't understand the question.

[21:38] {JamesWeil} Good fox developers want to push the envelope

[21:38] {DougDodge} folsk = folks

[21:38] {JohnKoziol} I think a lot of people go to SOAP sessions and the like for the same geeky reasons that a lot of us buy new gadgets without actually needing them

[21:39] {CarlKarsten} In the past there have been evening events, like VFP Jepody, the Framework roundup.... whats comming next?

[21:39] {DougDodge} JK - Right - What does SOAP do for me now except make me clean each morning? {g} Not that it's bad but what practical aspects?

[21:39] {WhilHentzen} John, agreed - so there should be a track for advanced stuff - but to fill the whole conference with that. Blech!

[21:39] {JohnKoziol} Yup

[21:39] {WhilHentzen} Oh, I get it. Well... This being Halloween, we're gonna have more fun stuff...

[21:39] {JohnKoziol} Again: I'd like to see some "best practices" stuff

[21:39] {PaulMrozowski} I want to learn new techniques. I can learn the nitty-gritty VFP stuff online. I like the big picture type sessions.

[21:40] {JohnKoziol} Precisely, Paul

[21:40] {MikeHelland} I'm not kidding, I went to search for it in the knoweldge base, and I find it... sort of... the error pops up when I click the serach button

[21:40] {JamesWeil} I agree, Whil. But there is a place for discovering new technologies and incorporating them into our solutions

[21:40] {WhilHentzen} The big new thing we're doing this year is the World Championships Tips and Tricks Contest one evening. 10 people (attendees, not speakers) will present 3 tips each to the entire group, and the group will vote which are best.

[21:41] {JohnKoziol} We do that at our FUG, Whil, and it's a lot of fun

[21:41] {WhilHentzen} We'll have prizes and stuff, and everyone at GLGDW will walk away with 30 new tips in 75 minutes.

[21:41] {JamesWeil} Thats six months of Advisor!

[21:41] {MikeHelland} Do the tips need to be VFP related?

[21:41] {WhilHentzen} We'll have a costume contest Wednesday morning (October 31), of course.

[21:42] {DougDodge} Whil, What about bringing back some of the old stuff like NJ(tpnts)'s trick to print infinitely wide reports?

[21:42] {PaulMrozowski} I think you need a "Top 10 dumbest VFP tips" session.

[21:42] {MikeHelland} Cause I've got my three if they don't, and one of them is related to supermans cape

[21:42] {WhilHentzen} Well, Mike, "Don't run with scissors" is a great tip, but it might not get ranked really high... {s}

[21:42] {MikeHelland} Hehe :-)

[21:42] {JohnKoziol} I'll wear torn jeans and t-shirt: A 'base' cllass (haha)

[21:43] {WhilHentzen} We'll also do Jeopardy again, and we've got another feature in the planning stages that'll help you guys market VFP better to your customers...

[21:43] {CindyWinegarden} Whil - I am always impressed in newsgroups how lots of people don't know basic stuff - don't know how to subclass the base classes and use that, don't know why they might want a Launcher app. etc.

[21:43] {JohnKoziol} (Ears perk up) .. explain that more, Whil

[21:44] {WhilHentzen} I can't yet cuz I don't have the details finished up and that stuff might change.

[21:44] {MikeHelland} Hi Della

[21:44] {DellaMartin} Hi Mike, everyone!

[21:44] {WhilHentzen} But it'll have stuff to do with 'real world' use of VFP.

[21:44] {CindyWinegarden} impressed at how many people dive into VFP with no background and just splash around until something works.

[21:44] {JohnKoziol} Good deal.

[21:44] {WhilHentzen} della, CAPS lock broken? {s}

[21:45] {JohnKoziol} Cindy, 10 year FP2.6 vets do that!

[21:45] {JamesWeil} That's how I got started

[21:45] {AlexWieder} Still splashing... ;-)

[21:45] {DellaMartin} Whil: nope, CAPS lock works's this durn shift key that gives me fits!

[21:45] {MikeHelland} I'm trying to find the water....

[21:45] {WhilHentzen} I suspect anyone who still have a grey and red dBASE II binder started that way - cuz that was the ONLY way!

[21:46] {JamesWeil} My degrees are in Journalism, and I still can't spell1

[21:46] {CarlKarsten} I get the feeling that most of the splashers don't go to conferences

[21:46] {RDBlack} Cindy, That's hoe I started.

[21:46] {DougDodge} Whil - I found a dBASE II original two-binder case whenmoving. {g}

[21:46] {JohnKoziol} Yep. When I got my hands on VFP 3 beta, my first thought was "where do I put the damn SHOW GETS?"

[21:46] {AlexWieder} There are "solo" splashers and "group" splashers Carl.

[21:46] {PaulMrozowski} I'm amazed at how many people don't even know that forums like the UT and FoxWiki exist.

[21:46] {MikeHelland} And Mike

[21:46] {MikeHelland} Incredible, isn't it

[21:47] {JamesWeil} I have always wanted to go to conferences, but every empolyer I've had doesn't see the value.

[21:47] {PaulMrozowski} Yeah, and Mike - unbelievable!

[21:47] {AlexWieder} I agree with you Paul.

[21:47] {CindyWinegarden} Paul - I am too.

[21:47] {DougDodge} Paul - You know www.mikehelland,com is pretty incredible too!

[21:47] {CarlKarsten} James - take the time off and take a vacation

[21:47] {CarlKarsten} I had to do that one year

[21:47] {JamesWeil} My wife would kill me!

[21:48] {MikeHelland} Haha

[21:48] {PaulMrozowski} Maybe I'm just lazy - but I'd rather spend 30 seconds searching the internet than spend 3 hours trying to figure it out myself.

[21:48] {CarlKarsten} leave her home ;)

[21:48] {CindyWinegarden} Your wife needs to see what's important.

[21:48] {AlexWieder} I know her. He's telling the truth ;-)

[21:48] {WhilHentzen} I would bet there are over 100,000 active Fox developers - yet FPA and Fox Talk between them have less than 10,000 subscribers. That's WAAAAY sad.

[21:48] {CarlKarsten} where do you get that number: 100k?

[21:48] {PaulMrozowski} Yeah, but I'm sure most of them are still running 2.6

[21:48] {JohnKoziol} 100,000? I dunno

[21:49] {MikeHelland} My Dad told me his theory today, he thinks VFP is around for 1 reason and 1 reason only

[21:49] {MikeHelland} National Security

[21:49] {AlexWieder} Well, I think msft could do something about this. Just like every copy of vb comes with a booklet of third party products, they should include a simmilar one with vfp 7.

[21:49] {DougDodge} Mike - Keep you out of trouble?? {g}

[21:49] {WhilHentzen} Just gut feel, based on what numbers there used to be from years ago, and current usage numbers.

[21:49] {AlexWieder} Splain mike, splain...

[21:49] {WhilHentzen} Mike, National Security?

[21:49] {MikeHelland} He thinks that the US governement wound't let MS kill FP because the military has soo mnay apps written in it

[21:49] {CindyWinegarden} JFast

[21:49] {PaulMrozowski} I can understand FPA not having many - the content had gotten a little weak, although it's been significantly better lately.

[21:49] {JamesWeil} Left field syndrome?

[21:50] {JohnKoziol} I think the number may rise slightly in the next year if Robert and the gang do what's right

[21:50] {MikeHelland} So if they claimed national security MS wouldn't have a choice

[21:50] {WhilHentzen} Alex, there is a Fox Resource Guide. But it's $5,000 to advertise...

[21:50] {CindyWinegarden} The military, anda lot of local govt's know that the price is right.

[21:50] {JohnKoziol} Hmmm...national security ... interesting

[21:50] {DougDodge} Nahh.. It's the legacy thing.. Wat too many apps need support. Call it the 'Cobolization of the desktop. {g}

[21:51] {JohnKoziol} Maybe the boys down in Roswell told them to keep it or else

[21:51] {PaulMrozowski} What a cool conspiracy theory.

[21:51] {RDBlack} Think about this, No college's offer it. VB, C, Office, Pascal , Cobal. No VFP

[21:51] {AlexWieder} I don't think $5000 is so outrageous when you know that it'll get to every vfp developer's hands.

[21:51] {MikeHelland} My dad's a pretty smart guy, a little anti MS, and a little anit Governement.. strange combination

[21:51] {JohnKoziol} Some foreign colleges use it .... at least one in India does

[21:51] {AlexWieder} Amherst is not even going that far. It's java and that's it for Computer Science.

[21:51] {RDBlack} Not in my area.

[21:52] {WhilHentzen} We've advertised several times - and it never pays for itself.

[21:52] {AlexWieder} I guess their history majors don't hear about the holocaust either ;-)

[21:52] {CindyWinegarden} Mike - the strange combination is a teenager thinking that his Dad is a smart guy!! ;-)

[21:52] {JohnKoziol} Didn't know the Resource Guide still existed

[21:52] {AlexWieder} Mike, you're sick!

[21:52] {CarlKarsten} A ton of junk mail gets in my hands every day, and never gets opened

[21:52] {JamesWeil} Mike is all grown up now. Havn't you seen his updated picture?

[21:52] {CarlKarsten} like a good Califorinan, it gets recycled

[21:53] {CindyWinegarden} JW - he's still under 20 though.

[21:53] {JamesWeil} still a youngster

[21:53] {DougDodge} Whil - Back on the topic topic.. What about integrating the various apps & products together?

[21:53] {MikeHelland} Cindy, hehe. I woudl bet that some of you have actually met him

[21:53] {RDBlack} At least he uses the tool available to him}

[21:54] {MikeHelland} He used to go to confrences, I think

[21:54] {DougDodge} Stonefield, VMP, Refo.. uhh.. {g} etc..

[21:55] {AlexWieder} Gotta run my friends... susy's calling. Nice chatting with y'all. Good night!

[21:55] {DougDodge} See you Alex..

[21:55] {JamesWeil} Say hello

[21:55] {RDBlack} Night Alex

[21:55] {WhilHentzen} Actually, I've tried to encourage the third party product folks to come up with sessions like that...

[21:55] {JohnKoziol} I'm not big on that idea Doug ... the vendors can do their own conference (like Mike and VFE) .. to diverse a group

[21:56] {DougDodge} Whil, any luck? Seems like it would be a good session for the practical stuff...

[21:56] {JohnKoziol} But doesn't that cross the line from a learning session to a marketing session, Whi?

[21:56] {RDBlack} I had the hardest time finding basic information about fox when I started teaching myself.

[21:56] {CarlKarsten} I like it, as long as it is marked as an info-mercial

[21:56] {PaulMrozowski} I kind of like seeing REAL apps that people have written.

[21:56] {DougDodge} JK - Really? I see it like having a book on automation calls written from the perspective of the calling product - priceless.

[21:57] {DougDodge} JK - What with Calvin essentially adding that to the Intellisense stuff we're finally getting it.

[21:57] {JohnKoziol} Yes, but to get the automation book, Doug, you don't want to buy a whole library on other stuff you don't need, IMHO, that's the equivalence

[21:58] {MikeHelland} Whil, I liked your latest editorial

[21:58] {JohnKoziol} Maybe as a whole separate "vendor track" that could be ignored

[21:58] {DougDodge} JK - Disagree... All I want are the calls. IOW, what can I do in, say, Excel from VFP - from VFPs pov.

[21:58] {WhilHentzen} Mike - which one? Musta been March? {s}

[21:58] {JohnKoziol} We agree to disagree, Doug {s}

[21:58] {MikeHelland} Wither our FoxPro

[21:59] {DougDodge} JK - Okee dokee.. Let's revisit over a cool one some day..

[21:59] {MikeHelland} I actually had an editorial like that half written up.

[21:59] {JohnKoziol} Yup

[21:59] {WhilHentzen} Yup, March. That was a fun one. But it's tough working on April's...

[21:59] {MikeHelland} What happened, why its good, and what we should do know

[21:59] {JamesWeil} Got to go. I need my beauty rest. Night all!

[21:59] {WhilHentzen} I've been tempted to post it elsewhere, knowing that not everyone gets Fox Talk (or reads the editorial {s})

[21:59] {RDBlack} Later James

[22:00] {CindyWinegarden} Whil - it it a "free" article?

[22:00] {MikeHelland} I was gonna post on mine on my site, but since your came out it will look like plagerism

[22:00] {JohnKoziol} I haven't gotten March yet ... hmm

[22:00] {MikeHelland} Cindy, yeah

[22:00] {CarlKarsten} any more GLGDW questions before the offical hour is up?

[22:00] {MikeHelland} I haven't gotten FT in a while, but I read all teh free ones

[22:00] {MikeHelland} My boss handles the subscriptions, so I have no clue what comes my way and what doesn't

[22:00] {CindyWinegarden} If it's free, we can post links to it on newsgroups

[22:00] {JohnKoziol} That'll make Whil happy, Mike :-)

[22:01] {MikeHelland} All I know is tha I've gotten about 30 letters from pinnacle saying I owe alot of money for magazines I never remember subcscribing too

[22:01] {MikeHelland} I throw everyone away

[22:01] {JohnKoziol} Whil, if you can, have Carl reprint it in the VFUG newsletter......that gets a wide audience

[22:01] {WhilHentzen} I was pretty serious about the 'what MSFT should do now' - we'll see what actually happens...

[22:01] {MikeHelland} "You're damn right its overdue..." it think

[22:02] {MikeHelland} Whil, mine is like that too, though I have a lot of language specific ideas

[22:02] {CindyWinegarden} At least have Carl put a link to it in the VFUG.

[22:02] {JohnKoziol} So what should they do?

[22:02] {CarlKarsten} i throw them all out too - I think thats why my subscrition keeps lapsing

[22:02] {MikeHelland} Write a newer more OO environment

[22:02] {CarlKarsten} What should I do with VFUG?

[22:02] {MikeHelland} I've outlined a bunch of stuff on a bunch of the private forums

[22:03] {MikeHelland} Here's what I think they need: a class that is your application class. No more main.prg or anything like that

[22:04] {CarlKarsten} Thank you Whil, and thank all of you for comming tonight

[22:04] {RDBlack} Thank You Whil

[22:04] {WhilHentzen} Evidently size isn't the only thing that matters. Length of time doesn't either?

[22:06] {MikeHelland} Since its a seperate product, everything in VFP should be self contained. We should be able to have access to data objects without ADO

[22:06] {JohnKoziol} Part 1 was years ago ... Lisa Slater Nicholls

[22:06] {WhilHentzen} >L< wrote it in '94 when 3.0 was released.

[22:06] {CarlKarsten} Next week will be Ellen Whitney - Basics Of Modeling

[22:41] {WhilHentzen} I gotta roll, folks. Time to put kids to bed.... Later!

Contributors: Whil Hentzen, Carl Karsten, Evan Delay, Cindy Winegarden

Category Wednesday Night Lectures
( Topic last updated: 2001.04.07 09:41:35 AM )